I will answer it myself, if no one else has a satisfactory answer, but I would like to keep it open, just in case. The words in question are very similar in both passages: Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Below you will see three different translations of the original Greek Koine. What I put forward is not my view but what the text clearly teaches. Soma comes from the Greek word sozo meaning I save. In other words, the image of "taking" may have the wider meaning of destruction as in the "taking" of life, which does not have to include the idea of rapture or snatching away, since there will be seven months of burying human remains after the supernatural intervention of the Lord to save Israel (Ezek 39:12). (13) Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he [31] [32] [33]IGN deu 8 de 10, dizendo "Atomic Heart uma tentativa altamente imaginativa, inspirada no atompunk, de continuar de onde BioShock parou.." Are kill () and destroy () synonyms? (37) For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou judge him in the last day. But most importantly the word for body is NOT a dead carcase (ptoma) but a living body (soma)! The body is the dead body of unbelievers we are to leave behind in order to follow Jesus. he might be revealed in his time. Time will tell! By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. We know it is the Rapture of the Church because we have Pauls epistles that explain it. Copyright Like The Master Ministries. Who is the one left? Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for professors, theologians, and those interested in exegetical analysis of biblical texts. The literal meaning of the words must agree with the context. The Lord will not destroy the righteous with the wicked.so we must depart and follow Jesus out. of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17). Posted on Aug 19, 2017 I believe you are referring to Luke 17:34-36. And also consider in the next passage the birds of prey where they are doing the devouring and the sequence of events. bear them now. This is because the dead have already risen by Luke 17:37. (36) But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, First, I found Matthew 24:28almost verbatim. giving in marriage, until the day Noah entered the ark, 39 and they Considering the context starts several verses earlier, nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' Their own words will come back upon them to destroy them. It has come to my attention, and as I understand it, that those who insist that the rapture verses of Matthew 24:40-41 and Luke 17:34-36 are, in their opinion, a judgment of the unsaved, are saying that the Greek word "paralambn" - as found in another passage of Scripture - can carry the connotation of judgment. housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it "And they answered and said to Him, Where, Lord? So He said to them, (31) In that day, he which shall be upon the Luke says, the Flood came and destroyed them all, and Matthew says, the Flood came and took them all away. To be taken was to be destroyed, or die. In other words, they will experience the glory and not the gory! Now lets read the verses you are referring to in (Luke 3436): I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other left. In both passages Jesus is talking about the end of the age which is the 7 years of Great Tribulation immediately before Jesus comes. This is how it is in the parable of the wheat and tares (Mt 13:24-30, 36-43). A remnant will survive. Is it referring to the Rapture? Here is a blog post that explains it in more detail: https://overcomingthetribulation.com/carcasses-eagles-and-taken/. They will want you to return evil for their evil when they speak against you for receiving it. "I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left" (Luke 17:34). A good man will bring good things out of his heart while an evil heart shall speak a multitude of evil words. Perhaps it means that the ones taken will be disenfranchised, their goods confiscated and their rights terminated as a "felony". (49) For I have not spoken of myself; but He has revealed to us the" mystery of his will"(Ephesians 1:9) Learning about it can lead to salvation and can provide you with a glimpse into the Creator's unfathomable wisdom. The prince of this world.those who love the preeminence (love to be first) among the churches will have nothing to do with Him as they will come forth to persecute those who will receive His words and exercise their authority over the churches as they will act like Diotrephes did. What was the importance of the horns of the altar (Amos 3:14)? So those taken were killed in flood. Can you give me the Bible support for the Secret Rapture? Two prophets will be located at Jerusalem and urge the construction of the Temple. We are to also not look behind to return evil for their evil that will certainly come out of their mouths as one leaves the churches of the unbelievers. In Luke 24:13, two apostles are mentioned. Mark 13, Luke 17:20 - 37 and Matthew 24-25 are the Words of Jesus giving His Olivet Discourse. Some will hear and believe and come out from among the unbelievers (the dead body) who will not believe in the revealed Word of Truth when they hear it. Luke 17:34-37 (NIV84) 34 "I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. The birds come to pluck out their eyes as they eat their carcasses: [Isa 5:25 NKJV] 25 Therefore the anger of the LORD is aroused against His people; He has stretched out His hand against them And stricken them, And the hills trembled. for out of the abundance of the heart I know this is an old post but I have a few comments. Those whom Jesus said would be left would be those who heeded the warning and fled to the mountains. If they are not still on the earth then who is doing the burying? Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. They will not be unequally yoked together with the unbelievers in their churches. That says, "I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left. Then He said to the disciples, "It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and He replied, Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.. Matthew 24:40-41 (NASB) Event After the Second Coming of Christ I tell you, in that night there shall be two. Calculating probabilities from d6 dice pool (Degenesis rules for botches and triggers). So Luke names 4 qualities of a true disciple: Offences; Forgiveness; Faith; & Service. They will also be tormented in the presence of the holy angels.the messengers.the words of our Lord which are life and spirit. 28 "Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot: they were eating and (35) Two women shall be grinding The reference to "one shall be taken and one left" is a reference to Zechariah's prediction that half of the people of Jerusalem would be taken away from Jerusalem as captives: [Zec 14:1-2 KJV] 1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. Matthew 24:40-41 (NASB). . But Israel will know that the Tribulation; the 70th week of Daniel chapter 9, has come when all over the world people disappear. In verse 26, Jesus resembled the days of Noah with His second coming: "And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. Luke 17:35 (NASB). shalt be condemned. drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29 but on the day 22 He said to the disciples, "The days will come when you will yearn to see one of the days of the Son of Man, . Again, we learn that the people taken out of the city were the saved. 52:49. [Jer 9:22 NKJV] 22 Speak, "Thus says the LORD: 'Even the carcasses of men shall fall as refuse on the open field, Like cuttings after the harvester, And no one shall gather [them].' 35 There will be two women grinding together. Luke 17:37 . They all deal with the same subject matter, the coming of His Kingdom, not the rapture. Bible Based.We believe in solo-scriptura. The passage in Luke 17 appears to be parallel to Matthew 24. We are not to return evil for their evil that will come out of their mouths as we leave their company. Those 'left behind' therefore, are those who will be 'caught up' with the Lord; not as a 'dead carcase' but as a living body. out of the way. Real Answers. Some use Luke 17:34-36 to teach the secret rapture belief but to understand the complete picture of this passage, we need to read the verses before and after. Therefore, they are not describing the rapture. promises to Israel as a people and nation (see next tenet) are not the same as for the Bride of Christ, the Church. D) A Literal 1000-Year Millennium The Bible describes a future, (10) But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house Recommend reading Luke 17:20-37 for better understanding, the parallel in Matthew below is a slightly different, this is because Jesus repeated many things as he preached from town to town. Luke 17:33-37 says, "Remember Lot's wife. As can be seen the angel in the foreground is depicted with eagles wings. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? For all this His anger is not turned away, But His hand [is] stretched out still. A lot seems to be happening in a very short scope of time. Luke 17:34-35, The disciples are interested to know about those taken away and its location, And they said to him, "Where, Lord?" And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? *. I know this has been years since the question was asked, but in case dont have clarity or others see this, I wanted to answer. Enter your email to receive new articles straight to your Inbox, The Herald of Hope . eg. Because Jesus Christ is the spotless Lamb of God who took away the sins of the world (John 1:29-34) by dying upon the cross, being buried and rising again as He promised (Matthew 16:21-23, 17:22-23; Mark 8:31-33, 9:30-32; Luke 9:21-22, 18:31-34), we now possess through Him the hope and reality of our own resurrection. Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.. Luke 17:34. There will be persecutions coming from the group we leave behind as they will think it strange that we no longer run with them in their church things. or 'There!' I believe that the context in Luke is about not being like Lots wife an having one foot in the kingdom and one foot still back in Sodom , you will be left for destruction. Who is being taken in Matthew 24:40-41? Any date. Also check out the words wherever and where in Matt 24:28 and Luke 17:37. So, AFTER the Great Tribulation, Jesus will return like lightning to rapture believers and to destroy sinners. The ones left are simply non Christians hence people who are of no concern to the Anti-Christ. When I compared the accounts of the Flood (Luke 17:26-27, Matthew 24:37-39), I noticed Jesus was talking about the same people wicked people who died in the Flood. And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. Revelation 19:17-18 KJV (17) And I saw an angel standing in the sun; Now in Luke 17:33 Jesus says "Whosoever shall seek to gain his life shall lose it: but whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it", In other words the people "taken" are believers (like Lot's wife) who unfortunately are seeking to preserve their life by sadly being attached like Lot's wife was to her lifestyle in Sodom. Luke 17:37 says " Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together ". Luke 17:34-36 Some use Luke 17:34-36 to teach the secret rapture belief but to understand the complete picture of this passage, we need to read the verses before and after. We are to keep His sacrifice in the presence of their persecutions by not returning evil for their evil. You have to change eagles into vultures and the body into a carcass. Rapture Doesnt Luke 17:34-36 support the secret rapture belief? 04 Mar 2023 00:06:00 Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. 37 "Where, Lord?" they asked. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Jesus said: And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold (Israel): them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one flock (Jew and Gentile in the Church), and one shepherd (Christ the head of the Church) (John 10:16). Marayong NSW 2148 The CEB and the disciple who barely escaped Whenever a new Bible translation comes out, questions arise about changes to familiar passages. As the men of Sodom, they will weary themselves to find the door in their spiritual blindness brought upon them for their unbelief in the hearing and resistance of Word of Truth. And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army. It is taken to mean that one day believers will be secretly "raptured" away and the rest will be "left behind." What's the problem here, you ask? There is no doubt the disciples were referring to the ones taken. His answer clearly reveals that all who were left would be dead and their bodies would be food for the eagles. Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give an account thereof in the Day of Judgment. So, AFTER the Great Tribulation, Jesus will return like lightning to rapture believers and to destroy sinners. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Right now the kingdom of God is within the hearts of people, but then--whenever then is--the Kingdom of God will come in spectacular fashion to bring about "the end of the age.". There we discover Luke 17:30-35 and Matthew 24:37-41 are illustrations of the Judgment of the Nations, which is also called the Sheep and Goat Judgment (Matthew 25:31-46). (34-35) cannot refer to the rapture as it is commonly taught, which is said to take place before the Second Coming. Jeremiah 9:23-24. So how do we interpret the words of Jesus when He said that in one night there would a global disappearance of individuals from bed, the field and at the mill? Where will they be taken? Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. So it is not a valid argument to reason that because Jesus was speaking to Jewish disciples before Pentecost He could not be referring to the Rapture of the Church. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together., The eagles are farsighted birds , spiritually far sighted individuals are likened to eagles and will be taken along "for salvation" and will gather together where the body is," to the Spiritual Wedding Feast prepared by the King - "God." Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. those who are in the country enter her.". Sadly, this verse has been used to support the secret rapture belief. To make things worse the NET Bible has added the word "dead" which is not in the Greek text. If any man hear His Word and believes (rejecting what one hears and does not receive it) not shall be judged by the Word of God that He has spoken. The word for the bird is generic in both accounts. How to follow the signal when reading the schematic? That is, Ezekiel 39 and Revelation 19 also appear to be parallel as apparent eschatological events of predictive prophecy, since both chapters also mention the birds of prey devouring those judged on earth at that time. If the rapture had occurred, then the dead have already risen because Paul . First, this teaching does not align with the separation of the sheep from the goats in Matthew 25:31-46. Why is this the case? Eagles go for bodies, vultures go for corpses. There are many Antichrists but one body of Christ. John 16:7-13 KJV (7) Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is Your's is the answer I believe most correctly describes the passage: it flies in the face of the "Left Behind" methodology, but it accurately describes the language used. Jesus faulted the Pharisees for missing (ignoring) the signs of the times: His own day WAS the "last days"! Then thereafter, everything said, points to 'features of *rapture, simple. It is clear that the "rapture" is for those to be devoured. place; for the LORD will destroy this city. Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? supper of the great God; (18) That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. (11) And they smote the men that were This is "the Supper of the Great God" (verse 17) and "the Marriage . G105 Eagle (or vulture) Could also read; Wheresoever the body shall be, thither will the eagles. In other words, an equally legitimate interpretation of the disciples' question is that the disciples wanted to know where the events Jesus was telling them about would take place. be the coming of the Son of Man. Please. Thank you for your response! (34) I tell you, in If you se vultures you know where the corpses are. Thank you! Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Nevertheless He gave the Disciples three signs that would indicate when the Kingdom would be established. It is quite clear that both scriptures are about the same event and that it is related to the warnings of the end of the age and the Lords return. 40 Then two will be in the field; one The words quoted in Luke 17 come after the Lord had answered the Pharisees question about the timing of the Kingdom of God. New Living Translation That night two people will be asleep in one bed; one will be taken, the other left.